New Fourth RivRon information

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New Fourth RivRon information

leesea
The article below does NOT say specifically what CNO means by "heavier"?  But it clearly says the riverines will be going ashore as in naval infantry.  Wonder if the budget he talks about so much includes new boats and weapons?  This all has been dragging on for too long.   leesea
 
Inside the Navy - 11/15/2010
Navy seeks further growth of riverines
Roughead: Fourth Riverine Squadron To Be 'Heavier' Than Previous Three
Posted: Nov. 12, 2010
Chief of Naval Operations Adm. Gary Roughead said last week that he envisions the fourth riverine squadron the Navy has proposed in its fiscal year 2011 budget as a "heavier" unit than the previous three squadrons and having the equipment necessary to better conduct ashore operations.
"One of the things I think has been quite successful has been the evolution of the Navy Expeditionary Combat Command, and the riverine force is part of that," Roughead said Nov. 10 at a discussion on the future of U.S. naval forces at the National Press Club in Washington. "In our recent budget, we have added a fourth riverine squadron. I want it to be a little bit heavier than the others, because you have to be able to operate in the rivers, but then you need to also be able to come on shore a bit."
The Navy wants the squadron to be a reserve unit, according to FY-11 budget documents, making it the first-ever reserve component riverine training squadron within NECC. The Pentagon, however, has pushed for it to be an active-duty unit, sister publication Inside the Pentagon reported in July.
Roughead noted that the Navy is trying to grow the riverine force as the capability has atrophied ever since the end of the Vietnam War.
"We walked away from it following Vietnam," he said. "So we're growing that back again, and there are several countries that, because of the nature of their river systems, are really quite good at this, and I'm always looking for an opportunity to get our riverine force partnered with them so we can train together, work together and learn from some folks that have actually been fighting wars on boats."
Roughead said he is also trying to get NECC into the baseline budget so the command does not have to rely on war supplementals for funding every year, a source that could soon run dry.
"When we initially stood up NECC, it was almost all funded with supplemental money," the admiral said. "The last couple of years we've been working to get that more in the base and make it more of a part of the enduring Navy." -- Dan Taylor
LCDR SWO MTS all retd now PBR-FVA VP
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Re: New Fourth RivRon information

Seafox
a Look a  TF-117 Table of Organization in Vietnam compare todays>>>Take special Note of the River recon section before the heavies go in.
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Re: New Fourth RivRon information

Delta Six
In reply to this post by leesea
  Will it be "Naval" Infantry or will it be Army or Marines? The Riverine Assault concept was originally concieved by a Marine Colonel as a Joint USMC/Navy Venture. I beleive the US Army 9th Division stood in for the Marines during Vietnam for some reason.
  The mention of the wartime funding is a concern though. Will they sacrifice a new destroyer or two to fund it normally? I doubt it, or it would have been done already. CNO wants it reserve because it is different funding. That will be interesting to see. If it is active, that means they are serious and are willing to loose something else to provide funds. If it's reserve, well then, I guess we will see.
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Re: New Fourth RivRon information

leesea
I think that the new riverines (at least those trained by the Marines) could easily be used for naval raiding parties in the classic sense.  The Marines "new found" MRF is nothing more than a specialized unit mimicking what NSW does already.  The Marines can NOT be everywhere needed.  Nor can the NSW due to their small numbers.  

Solution is to put more NECC units/dets on as many warships (or MSC ships) as possibile.  
Let them be used from the sea.

I kind of think that the above applies to active duty units.  Not quite sure how a reserve unit can help when needed immediately?  Of course there are a lot of reserve units which have specialized skills.
LCDR SWO MTS all retd now PBR-FVA VP
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Re: New Fourth RivRon information

Delta Six
Leesea,
  It's interestingto see how in the early days of this Forum, you stated something to the effect that you thought the Riverines should deploy as a Squadron and now  you support Detachments. I would agree with you on this as it may well be the only way that they can survive and increase thier training opportunities.
  I see an internal Boat War and pissing contest between the SBT Arg's and NECC assets being deployed from the same amphib though. It is bound to happen and it will go well beyond a friendly rivalry.
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Re: New Fourth RivRon information

Delta Six
In reply to this post by leesea
Leesea,
  It's interestingto see how in the early days of this Forum, you stated something to the effect that you thought the Riverines should deploy as a Squadron and now  you support Detachments. I would agree with you on this as it may well be the only way that they can survive and increase thier training opportunities.
  I see an internal Boat War and pissing contest between the SBT Arg's and NECC assets being deployed from the same amphib though. It is bound to happen and it will go well beyond a friendly rivalry.
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Re: New Fourth RivRon information

leesea
My distinction is this:
I think the riverines should go as a unit when they are working the inland waters as a brownwater operation. You established AO and CONOPS.  I would put dets on warships since the operations I see are smaller i.e.  a naval raid or opposed VBSS which are both relatively short in duration.  And we now have them first three rons trained up and not many places to send them.  SA now, Nigeria or other place in Africa maybe.

Naval leadership wants the riveriens but I am not sure they know HOW to employ them?   So for instance, most warships cannot support the riverine boats and they will compete with Marine and Navy gear for space onboard.  The MSV ship concept by Naval Postgraduate Schooll strikes me a doable.  The MSV concept and MSC chartering of ships for NSW should relive a lot of those problems about NSW and NECC competing for shipboard space.  Of course that does not give either any combat support capablity.

That goes back to my start point, NECC suffers from always having to ask for a ride on somebody else's ships.

I just don't think the Navy will ever take a gator away from the Marines to dedicate to other ops, the Marines scream too loud and have friends on the Hill.  I think the AFSB will always be an MSC sealift ship not a gator?
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Re: New Fourth RivRon information

Delta Six
   Leth me throw this out at you. I thought the LCS was to be set up to carry different modules for different missions? That might help a bit.  Maybe the Fleet ought to put thier money where there mouth is and employ that platform in that manner now and then.
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Re: New Fourth RivRon information

leesea
Yes indeed the LCS should be able to handle a det of NECC sailors depending on the boats.  Those blasted boat launch racks don't have much flexibility.  I would really like to see the blue water navy pony up something like the LCS, BUT they won't be to full IOC until about 2015?

Another thought is maybe the LCS needs different weapons and sensors to support inshore boat ops?  Maybe a 120 mm mortar or better ASuW missiles?  Who knows what NSFS the LCS will end up with?~

In the meantime, the Sea Fighter could be used.  OR the cheap route, MSC could chater an OSV just like they do for NSW support.
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Re: New Fourth RivRon information

leesea
In reply to this post by Seafox
Here is what the Composite RIVRON will look like:
HQS

Offshore Patrol
Division

1 x RCB
2 x FP-C

Support Division
C2, VBSS, Medical,
Maintenance, etc

Inshore Patrol
Division

4 x LCS compatible
Patrol craft
LCDR SWO MTS all retd now PBR-FVA VP
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Re: New Fourth RivRon information

leesea
In reply to this post by leesea
Have since found out that the LCS cannot handle boats larger than 11 meter presumably RHIBs which definitely limits its ability to support a full RivRon or even larger dets using boats smaller than RCB.  So presumably a SOC-R nee RAS will fit?
LCDR SWO MTS all retd now PBR-FVA VP